Site S Sub M Interview
Male Seventh Grade Student
6/8/99
Context: Student interviewed, in an empty office, during a study
hall at the end of the day.
Researcher: Start out by thinking of a good learning
experience that you’ve had. It can be in school or out of school,
but think of a time when you had an ‘ah-ha!’ or when everything
fell into place. Maybe you could finally do something you had been
struggling with or finally something made sense. Maybe it was your
English teacher who finally taught you how to write a good essay, or
maybe it was when your grandfather taught you how to fly fish. So if
it was in school or out of school, think of a time you had a really
good learning experience, and then briefly describe that experience
to me.
Student: Hmm! (thinking) Okay, this is kind of a mix between
in school and out. Cause it was on school team. I kind of… I just
started playing soccer a lot more on a real team. So I had to use
the rules more. And I couldn’t dribble that well, so.. and then I
got some help and I dribbled.
R: Good. Good. Alright, so think about what made that a good
learning experience. What were the characteristics of that
experience that made it good?
S: It was good, because every time that I did something wrong, no
one really pointed out like in a rude way or something.
R: So it is okay to make mistakes?
S: Yeah. But they’d still be able to joke about it. Which I
like.
R: What else went in to making it good? Was it finally being on a
real team that made it more important to learn this stuff?
S: Um hm. (Confirmation)
R: So you said, being respectful about making mistakes?
S: Um hm. (Confirmation)
R: Helping you learn how to do things right?
S: Yup.
R: And you said finally being on a real team, having something
real to do?
S: Um hm. (Confirmation)
R: So how many of your classes or teachers work those elements
into their teaching? Do they do… do any of those things exist in
your classes?
S: Hmm. I guess so, sometimes. And… one of the classes I really
like are math and science, because both (something) the teachers
will joke around, instead of always being serious and uptight.
R: Like some of your other teachers! (joking)
S: (Laughs) No names!
R: No names! That’s okay, in the transcript, I’ll just black
out names. (we chuckle) Alright, that’s good. Describe a good
class or teacher that you have now or have had in the past. What
made them good?
S: I liked a teacher named Mr. M. He was a teacher in (a town)
Elementary.
R: What grade was that?
S: That was during 5th grade, I think. No that was
during 4th. And I did school here (the current town)
until 3rd grade and then half a year of 4th,
then moved there, then moved back for 5th and 6th.
And over there, he would always have some sort of joke going around.
Like when we had book reports, he would make it sound like he’s
not the one assigning it. Like it was someone from a fairy tale, if
we had to one on fair tale. He’d had his own little fictional
character from a fairy tale and he’d come in dressed up as that
person. He once came in in drag, dressed up as a woman. With … and
he had like big red cheeks and put a blond wig on and came in and
read off the paper what we were supposed to do.
R: Wow, that sounds really cool! Was there anything else that
made him good?
S: Yeah, he’d give us class money so we were able… and we had
to pay rent for our desk.
R: Oh really?
S: And you could buy other people’s desks and they had to pay
rent to you, however high you see fit. And I liked that. That was
fun.
R: Cool! What else did you do with the money?
S: Oh, we got… at the end of the year, we got to buy things
such as… because we had this big thing where everyone would bring
in all their junk they didn’t want any more and you’d pretty
much bid for it. (interrupted briefly while a teacher got boxes of
yearbooks)
R: And so you‘d have like an auction?
S: Yeah. And before the auction, we had just.. we’d sell
(something – can’t hear) store…
R: You’d bring all your junk from home and stuff like that?
S: Yeah.
R: Cool.
S: And every time you passed in a homework assignment on time and
stuff, you’d get paid. If you messed up and didn’t do that, you
wouldn’t be able to get paid.
R: To what degree did you just do the work so you’d get the
money? Or did you do the work, because it was fun and getting the
money just made it more fun?
S: Yeah, that’s what it was.
R: So, how many of your classes or teachers that you have now are
like that?
S: Well, not many are. Like, my Language Arts teacher and my
Social Studies teacher, they don’t really make any of their
classes fun. It’s more of just boring.
R: Very serious?
S: Yeah. And, my Math class, we… that’s pretty much I think
the closest thing to it we’ve had. Either that or science.
R: Cause the Math teacher jokes around quite a bit, right?
S: Yes, he does.
R: Alright, good. Thanks. Help me out. Imagine that the State of
Maine Department of Education came to you and asked how to design
courses and units so that you could really learn well. What would
you tell them?
S: I would tell them to have a class that would be fun and
interesting, not just to one kind of person, but to everyone.
R: What do you think that would look like? What would make it fun
and interesting to everyone?
S: Well for some people, they need to have like a hands-on class,
they have to always be doing some kind of project. Some people have
to like the money that we had. And those were called jokes they had.
You have to, I think, divide the class up into sections of how they
want to learn.
R: Alright. What else would you tell the state?
S: I think I’d tell them that people in classes aren’t having
as much fun as they should. I think people should… people don’t
like school, they look forward to getting out and I think they
should more look forward into getting into it.
R: Should look forward to coming to this school? So you think
that one of the major things that stands between you and learning
really well is how fun the classes are or how fun they aren’t?
S: Yeah.
R: Alright, good. What’s the one thing you would change about
how your classes are taught or how your teachers teach that would
help you to learn better?
S: Okay…. Mrs. E (Social studies) She teaches her classes and…
when she does, she always… she keeps on variating (his word) the
class. Like one minute, we’ll be doing one thing and the next
minute we’ll be doing something totally different. That’s always
fun, because it’s spontaneous, and it’s not always the same
thing always the same thing over and over and over. And that’s the
same thing with my Math teacher, my Science teacher. Mrs. Y, my
Language Arts teacher, usually doesn’t do a bunch of different
things. All of her things are usually based on the same exact thing.
R: So the thing you would change is to make more classes like the
Social Studies class where they would change what they were doing.
So it’s a change of pace.
S: Yeah. So you’re… So you can learn several things.
R: Okay What else would you change if you could?
S: Okay. I’d like to have like a class where you get to learn
what you want to learn. And it would be pretty much divided up… We
have something like that only it’s an activity at the end of the
day, called Apache, we have on some days. I think there should be a
class that is just, you choose what you’re going to learn. You
have a little list of choices and you just choose.
R: What would you like to learn if you could?
S: I’d like to learn more about typing on computers and stuff,
because I like writing and stuff.
R: What kind of writing do you like to do?
S: Just… a lot of stuff.
R: Stories? Or letters or what?
S: I like to do more like meaningful things, that make people
think.
R: So like thought essays?
S: Yes!
R: Cool. That’s what I like to write, too.
S: Yeah, that’s what I always do in my journals for free
choice. Mrs. Y sometimes gets tired all those of hearing all my
thoughts along the…
R: Oh, really?
S: Yeah, I give way too much thoughts.
R: Naw, thoughts are a good thing. Don’t get rid of your
thoughts. Okay, what’s the best part of school?
S: I think it’s being able to see my friends.
R: Umhm, what else is good about school?
S: (long pause)
R: What do you like to do when you see your friends?
S: Here at school?
R: Sure.
S: Like to talk. Set up for the weekend which is like, we always
have little parties and stuff on the weekends.
R: Cool. Alright, how do you think you learn well?
S: I think I learn best when we’re doing hands on activities
that we have more control of as the students. Like… people should
have different due dates that they can set for themselves. Say you
have a book report. You say how long you think it will take you to
get it done, but there be a maximum limit. It can’t take you three
months to get this done, but you can say, this will take me two
weeks to do.
R: Okay, good. How else do you think you learn well.
S: I think I learn well in an environment where everyone can
laugh and joke.
R: So it feels safe and fun and…
S: Yeah.
R: Alright, good. What do you like to do when you aren’t in
school, like in the afternoons, evenings, and weekends?
S: I like to practice at soccer and be with my friends and stuff.
R: What kinds of stuff do you do with your friends?
S: Oh! We play a lot of soccer…. We play video games. We go
places like bowling and things. Go to the movies.
R: What’s your favorite movie?
S: (thinks…) Austin Powers.
R: Austin Powers, really? So you’re waiting for the new one to
come out?
S: Yeah, my dad already has our tickets! So we’re going to be
able to go see that on Friday.
R: It comes out this Friday?
S: Yeah.
R: Have you seen the new Star Wars movie yet?
S: Yeah.
R: I went the first night. I made sure I was right there! Okay.
So you’re interested in going to the movies, playing video games,
playing soccer, visiting with your friends.
S: Yeah.
R: Does school tie into those interests? Do any of your teachers
try and tie into your interests?
S: No. (Very quickly, very definitively)
R: No?
S: Really.
R: How do you think your teachers try to make school interesting
to you?
S: (thinks long time) By making… they try to make it more like
a game. But they think that’s working when it really isn’t
because they… because they’ll… they have a baseball style
vocab and they… it gets kind of corny.
R: Gets corny?
S: Yeah. It will be like, "oh, oh, oh! Can you get them out
at first? Oooo, ooo, ooo."
R: So it just gets too silly?
S: Yeah.
R: So when is a game good and when is it too corny?
S: When there are rules are so binding you to something. And they
get too carried away with it being related to this real life thing
instead of…
R: When it’s obviously not a real baseball game.
S: Yeah.
R: Are there other ways they try and make school interesting to
you?
S: I think… They try to do things that we’d like to do. But
they never… they just assume that we’re going to like something
is the problem. It’s like, "Well I liked this when I was a
kid, so they have to."
R: So the problem is that they make some assumptions, and they
may be good ideas, but they never bothered to ask you guys.
S: It’s be better, maybe to have a survey, or something.
R: Or if they involved you somehow in deciding.
S: Or they asked.
R: Any other ways that they try and make things interesting?
S: I can’t really think of any.
R: What's your favorite subject? Why?
S: Hmmm. (thinks) I think my favorite subject is P_________.
R: Which is careers and computers, right?
S: Yeah. Cause I like to try to think ahead about it. And I like
using computers.
R: Now when you say, "I try to think ahead," what do
you mean?
S: Like I try to plan ahead of me, like what am I going to do
once I get out of the school, once I get out of the high school.
R: And so that kind of helps you think about your goals?
S: Yeah.
R: What do you like about the computers?
S: I like computers because they’re new and they’re always
fun on whether you’re working except for typing sometimes that can
be a drag.
R: Sometimes typing gets a drag?
S: Yeah.
R: But when you’re doing other work and get to do it on the
computer, you like it?
S: Yeah.
R: Have you done any computer projects this year?
S: Yeah.
R: In any of your other classes?
S: Well during (the career & computer class) I put up a web
page. We did a HyperStudio project in my group for Social Studies.
R: How was that?
S: I was pretty good, except one of the people didn’t finish
they’re part.
R: Don’t you hate when they do that? And they leave you high
and dry!
S: Yeah, that’s happened to me quite a few times. Like we were
building these bridges out of tooth picks, and your partner supposed
to make one half and you’re supposed to make the other. My half
got built, but his didn’t. And my grade got really bad for the
class.
R: So what makes (the career & computers class) interesting
to you?
S: I think it’s interesting because she lets us do role playing
up there, where… and she gives us these jobs, and… we get paid.
We use our check book balancing. And whenever you do something
wrong, you get charged, instead of "Oh, you have to stay and…."
R: So it’s kind of like how it worked in your fifth grade
class, right?
S: Yeah.
R: How do you think you are learning "better" in that
class compared with other classes?
S: I think I’m learning better, because I’m having more fun
in there. And the things in there that we do are, I consider better
more fun. Just all around…. Good….
R: If you could make all of your classes like this particular
one, how would you have to change them?
S: Well in Math class, I… my teacher has a personality, but he
doesn’t use it enough toward the activities, which I think that….
R: So he kind of keeps his personality separate from his
teaching?
S: Yeah. And in Language Arts we just make it so its more fun.
And Social Studies to when we do things kind of… the way it’s
always off the wall, I wish it would have a little bit something to
do with each other, because one minute we’ll be doing some… we’ll
be making maps for South America, the next thing we know we’re
doing something on Canada.
R: So even though you like the change of pace…
S: Yeah… But they do it….
R: … sometimes it feels kind of fragmented.
S: Yeah. Well, she’ll be teaching us one thing while we have a
test the next day on something totally different and that’s hard
to do.
R: So you like the activities jumping around….
S: Yeah…
R: …you’re not sure you like the topics jumping around.
S: Yeah.
R: Okay. Good. That helps me a lot. How do your teachers give you
choices and let you help in class decision-making?
S: (chuckles) (long pause) (mumbles) oh, I don’t know.
R: When do you get to be in charge of your own learning?
S: (mumbles something) I guess during reading class, because we
get to do a free choice oral book report. And I guess that’s kind
of like that….
R: Okay. Good. How do your teachers try to help you see how
course content, and the topics and the school work you are doing is
useful or important?
S: They teach us… Mr. B_______, our math teacher, will show us
things that might actually help by… We had to… Building those
bridges if someone wanted to be an architect or that that just shows
you that you need math during everything. And then we made boats and
you need math during everything. And… During Language Arts…
(someone knocks on door – brief interruption) In Language Arts
there is just (mumbles) she’s always pointing out how we use it.
R: So some of your teachers have you do projects so you can see
how you use it and some of your teachers just point out how you use
it.
S: Yeah.
R: Any other way?
S: Ummm…. Some teachers will kind of combine both pointing and…
That’s always better because you’ll always have to be doing this
even on projects. And some will make us do worksheets or something
like that. What I don’t understand is this Social Studies. I don’t
know when I’m ever going to use that in my life.
R: Right. So even though you’re doing some pretty interesting
activities, you’re left feeling like it’s not… what does this
have to do with me?
S: Yeah. That’s it. Why do I need to know that the Incas were
conquered by Someone Pizzaro?
R: Those are good questions. What do you want to do when you get
out of high school?
S: Ummm… (pause) I think I want to go to a good college. But I
still want to be able to have some time to do fun things, not just
all college study, study, college, college, college, study. Because,
during the winter I like to go snow boarding, because that’s a
really fun thing to do. And, ummm, if I don’t get up there enough,
any skills I do learn will start fading back and I won’t be able
to learn new things. Snow board’s the kind of sport where you just
can’t take it up. Go for three days and then not go back at all.
R: What do you want to study in college, do you think?
S: I don’t know.
R: I mean you have a lot of time to decide, right?
S: Yeah. I’ll probably do something on typing or something and
language.
R: Have you given any thought to what kind of job you’d like to
have?
S: I do, like I said, like writing things are (couldn’t hear
– sounded like "handful") so maybe journalism, or
something.
R: That’d be really cool! How is school preparing you for that,
for going to college and possibly becoming a writer or a journalist?
S: By teaching me some of the skills I’m going to need in
advance. You can’t all of the sudden just be totally illiterate
and go to a college and expect to come out a journalist.
R: Right. So you feel like school is preparing you to go to
college and preparing you to….
S: And if you go in with a three word vocabulary, you’re not
going to come out with the world’s ….. it takes so much time.
School kind of also teaches you patience that you’re going to
need.
R: How do you think school is preparing you for your future?
S: I think they’re preparing me by… with the money thing, it’s
teaching us… because we’re really going to need to do all this.
Cause we have to balance checks in (careers & computers class)
which is something that we’re really going to have to do some day.
So teaching us something us something that we’re going to have to
do. Like paying rent. We’re going to have to pay rent. So we’re
going to get some practice.
R: Right. Okay. How do your teachers try and show you the
connections between your school work, and what that has to do with
your community, or with the real world?
S: (long wait) it kind of seems like one of the questions we’ve
gone over already.
R: I think so. I think that….
S: I think it’s basically pointing the way they pointed it out.
And it’s like I said before on the other one, with the projects
and with all the things. This is… You’re going to use this. You’re
going to use it for this. And stuff like that.
R: All right. Good. There’s a guy named Seymour Papert, who
invented a programming language for kids, called Logo. And he’s
really interested in how young people learn. And I’m going to read
you a quote from one of his books and I’d like you to give me your
reaction to it. And especially tell me how it matches your
experiences as a learner? Alright? "I am convinced that a large
proportion (though certainly not all) of cases of learning
difficulty are produced by imposing on children ways of learning
that go against their personal [learning] styles. Over and over
again I have seen children shake off their apparent disabilities
when given the opportunity to learn in a way that comes naturally to
them."
S: I agree to that. I mean, I like to learn while having fun and
if I’m not having fun while I’m learning, I’m obviously not
going to do as well. Some people have to have the classes that are
strict. That’s how they learn. Like I said earlier, I think you
should find out how people learn, divide them up into those learning
groups.
R: So you really think it would help schools a lot if they help
people understand how they learn well, and then help give them
opportunities to learn that way.
S: Yeah.
R: How do your teachers help you to successfully learn new
material?
S: Well, they just basically teach us everything that they can.
They’ll ask if we’ve learned this before which I like, because
there’s stuff that they’ve taught me and I’ve heard the same
lesson….
R: (at same time) Over and over again….
S: three or four times. And that’s especially true with when I
went to Lewiston, they’re school is like two grades ahead of what
we’re doing here.
R: So they were doing stuff down there in 5th grade
that you’re now doing here in 7th grade?
S: Yeah. We were doing stuff in 4th grade that we’re
doing now, and that… I just think that’s kind of crazy.
R: Yeah.
S: And I’m hearing things over and over and over again. It’s
even for the people who go here, they hear the things over and over.
R: Right. How do they help you feel like you are capable of doing
the work?
S: (long wait) They don’t really, I don’t think. I mean they
just pretty much give you the paper and pen and do it. And then
anytime they might sometimes say I know you can do this, or
something. But not really going to help you that much when it comes
down to actually doing it.
R: Right. Okay. And anything else you want to tell me about how
you think you learn well?
S: Like I said, I like doing stuff in an environment where I can
joke around and not always be up tight… I think being with friends
and ‘cause if you… you’re stuck with someone whose just the
worst person you could possibly work with in the whole world you
yourself are not going to succeed, because they’ll be pulling you
down. I mean I know you’re going run into these people in real
life, but they won’t be able to drag you down like they will if
you’re in class.
R: Right. Okay, anything else?
S: I can’t really think of anything else.
